Subject: listen to what Ptools has done

to my garageband tracks. I composed and recorded these tracks in Garage Band then uploaded the archived tracks to a shared server. My buddy CJ in LA download and imported each track into protools then sent the aiff back the same way for me to ok. In this way we have remotely produced a fine audio cd. Understand that other than pro tool mastering this is all out of the box and very diy including using the built in powerbook mic for vocals.

here are the mp3's http://www.macjams.com/artist/xjudson
the hi fi version is here http://ackackack.com/index2.html

Good studio sound. Good writing and performance. I'll have to start using Pro Tools LE that came with my Mbox. It sits on the shelf in neglect.

I used PTfree for some time...but it doesn't function in OS X or even classic, so I dropped it.

It has some decent features, though.

I'm sorry to tell you, but PT isn't better than Logic or other software. And PT LE isn't better than GB. The 32 mono track limit always bugged me... I had PT LE and let me tell you, compared to Logic or DP it's little baby. I think i prefer GB.
Your music improved with PT? Maybe the guy has better plugins or at least he know how to use them better than you. But definitely, it was not only PT.

gotta say I disagree with you Rollo. ProTools sounds TONS better than GB and equally as good (or better than Logic). GB is great for sketching out ideas and working with loops, but I prefer PT, DP, Tracktion, and Logic for better sounds. Personally I find it a lot easier to work with PT than Logic.

99% of the time I prefer the Mac programs, but in this instance they should re-name it "ILLOGIC" because the program takes forever to learn.

All things considered, I moved over to Tracktion because it is super fast to learn and use, sounds great, and you can't beat the pricepoint. I would have stuck with PT if it wasn't for the fact that they lock you into their hardware, which is a major bummer.

I think you didn't understood what i said.
I used GB. Then i bought Protools LE. Now i use Digital Performer but i also used Logic in the past. And in my opinion PT (and i'm not talking about HD systems) is the worst of them (Midi in PT is a joke, at least was in version 6.4).
But my point was not about which was the best DAW. It was about a DAW alone being able to make a better song. The software alone can't do much to it (and don't start a discussion about audio engines, they all sound good). The only thing that can change the song it's the plugins you use or how you use them (and the Bomb Factory plugins are not that good), and almost every RTAS plugin has an AU version you can use in GB or any other AU host.
So, software alone can't make music sound better. An F1 car in your hands don't transform you in Michael Schummacher...

I'm going to have to agree with Rollo and the above statement.

I'm having a hard time figuring out why so many people are having trouble with Logic. I had a tougher time using Cubase than Logic. My thinking is that by making garageband so pared down and simple, everyone is expecting a pro app to work like this (gb) simple consumer app. That's like saying Photoshop is illogical compared to iPhoto.

Not illogical, just a more stuff to play with. The arrange window is very much like every audio app out there. The mixer section works pretty much like any other audio app out there and the routing very similar to a real world mixer.

More controls does not equal illogical.

I think that so many people read about other people saying how tough logic is that blinders go up and the software gets a bad rep.

It took me one weekend to wrap my head around how it works. And, like photoshop, i will always be learning new ways to do things and new ways to make my project better.

I couldn't agree with this statement more! I think within a week I had a good grip on LE7, and this was confirmed once I bought the M. Sitter training book. I love Logic and trying to make music even though I have no clue. :)

Guys, ProTools LE is not not not ProTools like is used in a studio. That involves a few 10s of thousands of dollars of hardware that gives you very high quality plugins.

From a point of workflow, PT (LE or otherwise) could very well be inferior to GB, but from a point of pure sound, it's quite a bit better. If xjudson had his finished tracks pulled through PT, that means someone applied some quality EQ and compression and whatnot to it. And most likely that guy knew what he was doing, seeing as the results sound very good. Probably better than can be done with GB, even by someone who knows what he is doing.

Victor.

dchapman,

sorry, but this has nothing to do with "blinders". I am pretty computer savvy and not the type of person to be scared off because a program has a reputation of being tough to learn. I'm a PhD chemist and use a lot of very complicated software in my job so it's not like I'm sitting here just mimicking what other people have to say.

To be honest, I barely even used GB before I dove head first into ProTools. I understand the difference between a high end program and something included free with the operating system. I have used many different DAWs, most of which I have been able to get the basic concepts down within hours.

In Logic I feel like I am forever searching for a way to do the things that I want to do. So many of the key commands are buried in a few layers of menus. I don't like the way the menus are set up. I don't like the way tracks and channels are used. I don't like the editing options. It's much easier and quicker for me to route tracks in other applications. IMO, ProTools, Digital Performer, Reason are all much more user-friendly in figuring out how to do basic things.

Just my opinion.

I am a musician, not an engineer. I think I have GB down pretty well now after a few years and about 60 songs. Previous to GB I had used a few 4 track machines. And had been in a few state of the art studios. What my friend can do with PT and most other software is years beyond me. He is in LA I'm in NM. The increase in quality is a direct result of his involvement. ie; experience, software and mastery thereof.

thanks all..

[QUOTE]Tiny_Man_Inside: 99% of the time I prefer the Mac programs, but in this instance they should re-name it "ILLOGIC" because the program takes forever to learn ... In Logic I feel like I am forever searching for a way to do the things that I want to do. So many of the key commands are buried in a few layers of menus.

Hi. I have used Logic from a few days after version 5. Logics' power has much to do with its flexibility. That is the part that mosr people stumble over. Logic unlike many daws allows the user to really define what is needed and what is not. However with this freedom come a degree of convoluted (or so they might seem at first) ways of setting up things.It is the very ability to assemble exactly what your needs call for and not just handed pre-set useless signal paths and additional ins and outs that stiffles some. Logic allows the user to trim the fat so to speak. Pro-tools is a program I would love to have. But I can't afford the HD version. If I could I most certainly would own both Logic and Pro-Tools HD.But without being able to afford one of the Pro verions of PT. I see no positive gain in getting one of the cheaper versions.I also must say that shit in still equals shit out. But this most certainly is NOT the case here. I hear creative music made by a creative person. I would love to hear the pre PT verions if that would be possible??? hint hint. Just to hear just a bit of how much better the songs sound. I can't see the songs being any worse. Just sonically enhanced. Taylor

I have to say that I too disagree that Logic is illogical. I'm not sure why, but I have had no issues learning how to do stuff. Outside of using some of the keycommands from Vision, which are completely ingrained in my brain, I've found Logic to be fairly easy to understand. I also find that I'm able to do much more complex things in logic at higher audio resolution than I can with GB. There must be some major CPU overhead issues with the GB interface.

As far as audio is concerned, I can believe that PT would provide better audio, undoubtedly the dithering algorithms etc. are far more sophisticatd and mature in PT than GB. From everything I've ever head, audio people love PT for the way you can edit audio, but MIDI people despise it for the way it handles MIDI data. I hear in v7 that has changed a bit, probably due to Dave Oppenhem (the OP in OPCODE) being on the PT team now. Vision still has some of the best MIDI editing and management interfaces on the planet.

So, it looks like your issues are purely how it's laid out rather than it being difficult. That's fair.

For everyone else..

My point was based more on people saying it's brutal to learn and has this really high learning curve.

ANY full blown audio app is gonna have a big learning curve if all you've used is GB and even more so if you've never been around a real mixer. I've used GB, Reason, Soundtrack, Cubase and Logic. And Logic is by far my fave... and Cubase had the worst curve (for me).

The biggest thing that (especially Express) has going for it is what you get for your money. The plethora of plug-ins, virtual instruments, soft synths, amp sims and the compatibility with Garageband and Apple Loops make this software pretty much a no-brainer for those looking to move up.

It's not that hard to learn. You just have to wrap your brain around a different kind of workflow.

And from what i've heard, ProTools isn't the easiest to work with for everything else but audio. I've heard bad things about sequencing and midi support (but see the above message... maybe it's getting better).

As for the improved sound, my money goes on someone who knows what they're doing having a quick go at the song. It's amazing what some of the mastering plug-ins can do to an otherwise dull recording.