Subject: Votes and Comments

Curious as to what makes you vote or comment on a song. I have a song listed that has about 80 hits, 30 plays and 15 downloads, but no votes or comments.

I find it curious that people will listen and even download, but not vote or comment.

Any thoughts, or should I just go in the other room and watch Letterman?

I'm going to check out the song but please don't give up and go to Letterman. The only thing worse than that would be slapping yourself silly with a slab of raw liver.

Hits, Plays and Downloads include both member and guest users actions. Guests users are not allowed to vote or comment. Votes and comments require that a user have an account at MacJams.

Tim, I completely agree. I would love to see this become part of the culture of MacJams (it has certainly become part of my behavior): *Every* download should be accompanied by a comment. Whereas I think there's much to be learned from criticism, there is also much to be learned from hearing what inspired the listener to the extent that s/he downloaded a song.

Something else to consider. If I just got a song I like enough to put in my iPod, and I got it for free, I would think some thanks are in order to whoever created it and offered it to me, and leaving a comment seems a most appropriate gesture. I might even go so far as to say that it approaches rudeness not to do so.

How does that sound to you? Every download is accompanied by a comment as a way of thanking the writers/performers for the gift of the song. What do you think? How do we get the word out?

After reading what Simon wrote, let me add this: maybe the Admins could consider asking people to register before they have the privilege of downloading. In light of the above, and as painless as it is, it makes sense to me.

That's something I hadn't thought about. Now I can go slap myself with a slab of liver.

The idea that we would expect thoughtfulness in this day and age is noble. If a person downloads a song it is reasonable to expect they might comment.

Now back to the slab of liver.

Actually that is not such a bad thing because it means that people who are not registered and don't post on Macjams thought your song was good enough to download. That is the ultimate comment. Someone who has no bias because they don't post here, thought your song was so good that they want to listen to it more than once. You can get some nice comments and good votes from Macjammers but they don't download so how sincere can those votes and comments be?

Remember, RAW liver - Oh, and it's best straight out of the fridge. :D

I've often wondered whether it would be possible to let guests 'play' pieces, but only registered users 'download' music. I sometimes wonder where 'my' music's being played, by whom, for what, etc. I've had some of my pieces used by folks for non-profit organizations to whom I've given a hearty, "please use it, and thanks for asking first", but then I wonder if others are using my music without being polite and asking first. Maybe no matter, but I have enough of an ego to feel just a little jealous for my compositions. Does anyone else have these thoughts, or am I just being possessive?

we should not be precious only protective of our work - as for thanking people for the use of their work now that's interesting. I thanked and let Krystyjo know that her work was sampled for my ghost at the feast composition but received no feedback whether it was approved of/liked/disliked/even listened to etc. maybe it does not matter. My point is we should not get bogged down in the snobbery of musicians. The best ever work is often written very quickly and without prejudice and whether someone download/comments/offers a critical view does not matter if you have faith in your own work. javascript:emoticon('B)')blah blah blah welcome to the wax museum.

Great idea!

"Tim, I completely agree. I would love to see this become part of the culture of MacJams (it has certainly become part of my behavior): *Every* download should be accompanied by a comment. Whereas I think there's much to be learned from criticism, there is also much to be learned from hearing what inspired the listener to the extent that s/he downloaded a song." Futzpucker quote.

I am all for download = comment :)
Pretty please! Really I can't say enough about this missing aspect of MJ.

Good grief, I didn't receive that communication- thus no feedback. however, I'm glad that you did try to let me know, and now, of course, i'll be off to listen to that particular composition. :) (John Stebbe said he wasn't getting through when he tried to send me a message recently, so perhaps something's not set correctly in my prefs - I'll check that out.)

I don't know what you people are talking about. It's really quite rare at MJ that a song gets a whole bunch of downloads but little to no comments or votes. Very rare. It hapens ever once in a while. I've seen the odd song here and there get like 70 downloads with hardly a comment at all.. It seems to happen once in a blue moon. I can only guess that it happens when the person who posted the song has posted a link to it somewhere that got it a lot of attenting from non members (friends, family, the NSA). It's really an anomaly. Generally, even songs that have gotten high ratings and lots of comments and even lots of fans tend to get less downloads than any of those other measures.

A thorough comment is the most informative thing but a download is generally the most straight forward and honest thumbs up. Anyway, there is hardly a rash of heavy downloading without voting/commenting going on at MJ. It's merely one of those freakish things that boggles the mind (not judging the particular tune). The idea that we need to start talking about asking the admins to enact a policy that makes it so you have to become a member and comment to download is not only obsurd, it's just plain silly. God forbid that in some very unusual instances here at MJ a tune has a bout of great proliferation. If you are one to have one of these rare occurrences of heavy unexplained downloading happen to one of your tunes, well, just be grateful... puzzled but grateful.

Are you guys talking about a rule that says you cant download a tune unless you comment? That is a bad idea! Then you will loose all the downloaders that doesnt bother to comment!

I agree with this.

Besides, forcing people to comment will just drive them away.

I also agree with this. It is part of this site's makeup that it encourages the free sharing of the member's original music. Requiring people to register and comment will discourage that free sharing. IMHO pgreenstone is right.

Yeah, that's my impression too.

Bottom line is that you can't legislate more comments or votes. Downloading something presumably means someone likes it, so if you're getting lots of downloads, be content with that. It's a matter of perspective. That's probably true, as long as the composer isn't the one doing all the downloads...

Reading too much into any of this is folly, I think. I've read posts by someone who says the only way he can listen to something is to download it (I don't understand the reason, but that's besides the point), so maybe some downloads are an indicator of nothing except that someone wanted to listen to your tune. Conversely, no matter how much I love a tune I don't download it. Never have. It's not a comment about anything, except perhaps that I don't have an MP3 player.

I agree that a download is a compliment. But I often wonder who is doing the downloading. I have also noticed that there are often more downloads than votes/comments. I am a new user to this site and for many of my songs, that seems to be the case.

Even non-registered users have the option of emailing the artist. I do think that, out of courtesy, if a person downloads a song, they drop the artist a little note, either in the comments or by email. But I don't necessary want to make that a requirement.

It seems to me that this discussion rather turned left somewhere from where it started, and it might have done so because I was unclear about what I was saying. Please let me try to clarify.

To briefly recap, Mr. Monkaton wondered how he could have 80 hits, 30 plays and 15 downloads, but no votes or comments. He said:[QUOTE ]I find it curious that people will listen and even download, but not vote or comment.

Good way of putting it futz!

I merely was stating an opinion - that forcing folks to comment is a bad idea - not suggesting you personally proposed such an idea. I recognize that "should be" is not the same as saying "has to be."

Myself - I vote rarely, and download little, but I try to comment on other songs as much as I can. However, I recognize other's involvement in the online experience is not going to be the same as mine. I find I'm bad at voting - I get too hung up over the meanings in the categories. But I have backgrounds in writing and critiquing, so I try to focus on leaving comments, for what ever they're worth.

It takes a while to get used to the medium. Leaving a comment on macjams is different than a face-to-face discussion about, say, a painting hanging on a wall. All of the nuances of gesture and vocal inflection are absent, making it easy to offend. I've found the hardest thing to comment on is lyrics, because people think you are attacking their intelligence. Perhaps this is because the software driving the experience - GarageBand - is primarily a tool for production, and naturally generates lots of questions about production values.