I had to say something to someone about this. This seems like as good a place as any. So, here goes.
I just received my copy of MOTU's Digital Performer 4.5 three days ago. Now, I don't want to step on anybody's toes but, I have gotten further with DP in these last three days than I did after two years with Logic. I can't speak for the newest version of Logic. I had version 6. But if 7 is anywhere near what 6 was, I am so happy I decided to switch.
What bothers me is why Apple decided to go with an app that is not (for lack of a better term) logical. I have to think the reason is because they were thinking they would make more money with Logic. After all, Apple is in business to make money and Logic is about $500 more expensive than DP.
Problem is, I don't think their statagy has any merrit. They tout Logic and Logic Express as their upgrade path from the outstanding GarageBand. Version 7? maybe. But, somehow, I doubt it. How can something as complicated as Logic even come close to the simplicity that is GarageBand?
Digital Performer, on the other hand, doesn't cost as much, is just as - if not more powerful than Logic and (in my opinion) is easier to use! So, I think that once the word gets out, or Apple does a serious overhaul to Logic, people are going to go with the alternatives. This means they won't spend the money Apple was hoping to get from the GB>LE>LP upgrade path.
I could be wrong about all this. After all, I have never worked with Logic 7. But after the last three days with Digital Performer, I likely never will.
Subject: Opinion: DP vs. LogicPages: 1 2 | |
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 bug67 | May 30, 2005 7:19:27 AM |
 | May 30, 2005 7:05:07 PM i used to think like you until Logic "CLICKED" and everything started making sense. i did ask alot of questions and i picked up the "Apple Pro Training Series-Logic Pro 7 and Logic Express 7" book, which really helps when i get in a jam. i can't really speck for MOTU's DP, but now that i semi-figured out Logic, i really enjoy using it. i find Logic alot easier than Reason to use! as they say "Different strokes for different folks!" good luck with DP and i look forward to hearing some tracks created with it. |
 dchapman | May 31, 2005 10:48:03 AM Quote by: Mhz i find Logic alot easier than Reason to use! That's apples and oranges. They're for doing different things, although there is some overlap. I've been using LE7 and I do believe that they made some big changes since version 6. I love using it... but I am interested in trying DP. |
 TennesseeVic | May 31, 2005 10:50:19 AM Quote by: dchapman I've been using LE7 and I do believe that they made some big changes since version 6. I love using it... but I am interested in trying DP. I'm happy enough with Logic. If I were to try a different host, I'd go for Live, because it's a completely different beast. V. |
 Rolo | January 19, 2006 11:25:07 AM I'm trying DP. It's a big beast, but i'm finding it a pain in the a$$ for composing. Logic is way, way more simple. |
 eorthman | June 25, 2007 7:53:01 PM I've used both. A friend convinced me to upgrade to Logic rather than Digital Performer (from my pre-digital version of Performer) so we'd be compatible. At that time, Logic was one of the only cross-platform recording packages. Logic eventually "clicked" for me, but it took nearly ten years. Ten years! Think of what I could have accomplished had I stuck with Performer! But I'm committed now. Quote by: Mhz i used to think like you until Logic "CLICKED" and everything started making sense. |
 GeorgeLikesMusic | June 25, 2007 10:14:48 PM I've used LE and DP, and DP is a little more powerful, but I think logic has better plugins and EXSP is definately better for synth |
 biba_nova | June 26, 2007 1:05:10 AM I have used both. Have to say Logic is much easier and has superior features. I am at the point now with Logic that it is as transparent to me as pressing Rec/Play on a tape recorder... |
 Aaron David | June 26, 2007 2:49:36 AM to each his own... but I use LE 7.2 and love it.... I never used previous versions of LE or LP, rather GB 2. Before that, well.... windows sound recorder :S and cool edit pro 2.1. One thing I will say is that you can't really compare GB and Logic as they are different. If you want simplicity than stick with GB. The reason LE and LP are upgrades is becuase they peel another layer into whatis sound recording. A little less automation and a little more hands on. When you inport a GB file into logic you can quickly see how much GB automatically does for you and doesn't give you a choice to tweak. The more power, the more responsibility to use it wisely... that's my take.... PS... never used DP :) lol |
 Brian Weiland | June 26, 2007 4:49:50 AM I have use DP at home for two years now and I love it. About the same time I began using GB at my school (I teach music at a K-8 school) because it came bundled on the eMac on my desk and I was quickly seduced by its ease of use, but eventually realized I wanted somehing a little more powerful. Last year I spent half of my tiny precious yearly music budget on LE, believing that I could just import my GB files into LE and start doing some of the more advanced things I was used to doing on DP, and I regret it completely. :cry: Unfortunately, I found LE ANYTHING but Logical. It is not intuitive, it is not logical, it is NOT fun, and I will NOT be spending ten years, or even ten more minutes trying to figure it out! Especially when I can keep using DP. I'm not saying DP has better features, or better plugins, or better anything, and I can surely understand why those who have spent years learning Logic will not be switching, and I would never try to convince them to. I also trust those who have put in that kind of effort when they say that Logic has deep and wonderful features which allow them to do amazingl things with their music, and I think it's great that they're enjoying and creating music they're proud of with Logic, and I hope they create a bunch more of it and share it with us! But is Logic a - forgive me - "logical" upgrade for people who came into recording by starting with GarageBand, and are ready to upgrade? Based on my experience as a reasonably intelligent person who knows his way around computers and has more experience than the average person recording, my response would be HELL NO! There is NOTHING fun or easy about learning to work with Logic, and if you haven't yet spent the money I would suggest you seriously look at other programs before you pony up the cash for Logic. It is NOT GarageBand with professional features. Hopefully this next statement won't trigger a PC-Mac flamefest, but I feel that it is relevant to point out here that Logic was originally a PC program long before GarageBand was even conceived of, and this heritage shows in Logic's incredibly difficult interface and incredibly steep learning curve. Again, if someone has put the time into learning Logic and wants to say that now that they understand it, they find it very easy to work with and they are doing great and amazing things with it, I will not argue that point, my hat is off to them, and I will happily enjoy listening to their masterpieces. But anyone who is looking for an upgrade from GB who does not particularly want to spend the next ten years learning a program instead of creating music should know that Logic is an entirely separate program from GB in every way, and is NOT a seamless upgrade. And to tie this into the original post and title of the thread, I agree that Digital Performer is a much more "logical" program than Logic. :) ~Brian |
| June 26, 2007 7:03:53 AM I went from GB2 to Logic Pro 7. I was productive the first day I used Logic, however, I am still learning things. Although I am not an audio engineer, I have some basic engineering training, so the concept of routing signals through various devices didn't seem alien to me. In GB, the signal routing is being done (you can see this if you import a GB file into Logic), but in GB the signal routing is much simplified and, for the most part, hidden from the user. I've never used DP, so I cannot compare Logic to DP. |
 MasonAtom | June 26, 2007 8:56:44 AM When I started digital recording 2.5 years ago, I started with GB, then moved to ProTools, then moved to Tracktion. Along the way I tried out Logic, Live, and DP as well. My worst experiences have been with Logic - it does not fit my workflow and I find it to be incredibly cumbersome. It is soooo slow for me to get anything done in it. Granted, I don't have intimate knowledge of the software, but I find that it takes me far too long to learn how to do things. I liked Digital Performer A LOT more than Logic, and was planning on eventually buying it, but on a lark I installed Tracktion 2 which was included with my Mackie Onyx 400... and after about 20 minutes playing with it I knew that I had found the right software for me. DP is a really nice program but the simplicity and power of Tracktion won out in the end. If I were going to rank the programs I've used, I'd go: 1) Tracktion, 2) Pro Tools (I liked this quite a lot, but digidesign's insistence on locking you into their hardware pisses me off), 3) Digital Performer, 4) Live, 5) Garageband, 6) Logic. At this stage, the only thing I use Logic for is mastering, and with the new plug-in suite included with Tracktion 3 (Final Mix is AMAZING), those days are numbered. Mason |
bug67 | June 26, 2007 9:49:15 AM Wow. I started this thread over 2 years ago. 8O In that time I have learned so much about Digital Performer. However, there is way more that I don't know. It comes in spurts. I have an "ah-ha!" moment about once a month. It is a very deep application. The manual is over 1700 pages! :? Thank goodness for indexes and the www. I am currently using version 5.12. It just keeps getting better with every upgrade! If I were to pick a "true" upgrade path from GarageBand, I would chose Soundtrack Pro. Out of all the digital work stations I have worked with, (all incarnations of GB, Pro Tools LE, Logic 6, Traction 1 and Digital Performer) Soundtrack Pro has the closest resemblance to GarageBand of any of them. I think now, with the introduction of the most recent version of STP, one can even record multi track audio with it. But alas, the only way to get STP these days is to buy the whole Final Cut Studio bundle. :( There are an abundance of choices out there. The options are limitless. The really cool thing about it though is there is something for every one's skill and ability level. Whichever DAW works for you is the right one! Just make music and have fun! :D |
MasonAtom | June 26, 2007 9:59:40 AM Quote by: bug67 There are an abundance of choices out there. The options are limitless. The really cool thing about it though is there is something for every one's skill and ability level. Whichever DAW works for you is the right one! Just make music and have fun! :D Very well said. What works for one person may not work for someone else. Go with what works for you. |
 TEXASFEEL | June 26, 2007 2:08:49 PM I only have logic express. I was completely lost when I started to use it. After reading some books and messing around with the program I find it essential where as Garage Band lacks. I find it easier now to use Logic Express than Garage Band, to do what I want to do with GB would require a lot of work around. As far as Digital Performer I couldn't make a comparison and haven't used it. If you were fortunate to get a copy of Digital Performer and are happy with it then I think your doing well for yourself. I do believe that the newer versions of Logic are much easier to use than what I have seen in Logic 6. Coming over from Cubase to GB then Logic there's no turning back. I wish I could afford Logic Pro and for me the upgrade would be a hefty 700 bucks so I'm with you, I would like to see Apple re-think the cost. |
Brian Weiland | June 26, 2007 6:22:47 PM I suspect most people here go looking for more "pro" features for their songs once they're ready to do creative mixing, and play with plugins and, for some of you, tackle the final mastering. I don't really want to master myself, because I don't think my gear or my ears are good enough. I'm doing some recording right now I'd like to eventually release, but I'm going to be sending my tracks to a mastering studio and let the pros with the gazillion dollar EQs and reverbs play with it. But there are times when I need to print the music I've composed, either to give to other musicians or because I'm publishing a song. If Apple added the ability to print sheet music to GarageBand, I'd probably use nothing else! I guess that's why I was so disappointed with Logic- I thought it would be like GarageBand, only it would also allow me to print sheet music, preferably in a "Mac-like" way such as by having a big ol' "print" button to click, and having it immediately ask me which parts and how many copies, and then happily churn out engraved sheet music! I think Logic DOES actually do this, I just couldn't figure out how. Probably those of you who know how are rolling your eyes :roll: but that's where I gave up. I actually found it easier to handwrite the parts than try to figure out that program! Maybe I should go back and play with it some more, now that I've heard so many people say that they like it, but unless the new one has a seriously redigned interface, I still think it's a valid point that it does not function in an intuitive way like everything else Apple puts their name on. Like I said, though, I'll give it another chance next time I'm at my school (vacation started this week! Woo hoo!- :mrgreen: Oh wait, that just means I go to my other job- nevermind! :? ~Brian |
TEXASFEEL | June 26, 2007 9:08:30 PM Quote by: Brian Weiland I'm going to be sending my tracks to a mastering studio and let the pros with the gazillion dollar EQs and reverbs play with it. I'm with you on that... wouldn't it be nice if you could shell out serious amounts of Pedro's, obtain Waves Platinum Native Bundle, have time to read the manual, understand it and grow a second set of ears. |
 mvh9591 | June 26, 2007 11:17:22 PM I've never used Logic so I couldn't say weather it's better however I can say I've been using Digital Performer 3.0 in OS9 for years and I love it. I used Pro Tools for years in a recording studio and I actually prefer DP to PT. I can start a project in SoundTrack or GB and bounce it to disc as a AIFF file and import it into DP and continue adding audio, MIDI, etc... I think Digital Perform is very easy to use and understand. It does come with a 1000 page users manual that is helpful. I have been recording with DP for many years so it seems easy for me however audio engineering takes time and patients to perfect. Hope this helps, mvh : ) |
| June 27, 2007 5:05:18 AM bounce |
eorthman | July 12, 2007 1:18:51 PM Quote by: Brian Weiland I have use DP at home for two years now and I love it. About the same time I began using GB at my school (I teach music at a K-8 school) because it came bundled on the eMac on my desk and I was quickly seduced by its ease of use, but eventually realized I wanted somehing a little more powerful. Last year I spent half of my tiny precious yearly music budget on LE, believing that I could just import my GB files into LE and start doing some of the more advanced things I was used to doing on DP, and I regret it completely. :cry: Unfortunately, I found LE ANYTHING but Logical. It is not intuitive, it is not logical, it is NOT fun, and I will NOT be spending ten years, or even ten more minutes trying to figure it out! Especially when I can keep using DP. I'm not saying DP has better features, or better plugins, or better anything, and I can surely understand why those who have spent years learning Logic will not be switching, and I would never try to convince them to. I also trust those who have put in that kind of effort when they say that Logic has deep and wonderful features which allow them to do amazingl things with their music, and I think it's great that they're enjoying and creating music they're proud of with Logic, and I hope they create a bunch more of it and share it with us! But is Logic a - forgive me - "logical" upgrade for people who came into recording by starting with GarageBand, and are ready to upgrade? Based on my experience as a reasonably intelligent person who knows his way around computers and has more experience than the average person recording, my response would be HELL NO! There is NOTHING fun or easy about learning to work with Logic, and if you haven't yet spent the money I would suggest you seriously look at other programs before you pony up the cash for Logic. It is NOT GarageBand with professional features. Hopefully this next statement won't trigger a PC-Mac flamefest, but I feel that it is relevant to point out here that Logic was originally a PC program long before GarageBand was even conceived of, and this heritage shows in Logic's incredibly difficult interface and incredibly steep learning curve. Again, if someone has put the time into learning Logic and wants to say that now that they understand it, they find it very easy to work with and they are doing great and amazing things with it, I will not argue that point, my hat is off to them, and I will happily enjoy listening to their masterpieces. But anyone who is looking for an upgrade from GB who does not particularly want to spend the next ten years learning a program instead of creating music should know that Logic is an entirely separate program from GB in every way, and is NOT a seamless upgrade. And to tie this into the original post and title of the thread, I agree that Digital Performer is a much more "logical" program than Logic. :) ~Brian |
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