Subject: Mad 10 bombing?

Is there a 10 bomber in our midst? I appreciate the score, but there are numerous 10s on the front page. Secondly, I don't think I've ever created a 10. Just saying...

Doof,

You don't think I'm going to get involved in this again do you!?

Oh, all right then ;)

What may be having an impact is that I've stopped voting. I have, since I started the forum ( http://www.macjams.com/forum/viewtopic.php?forum=23;showtopic=133477 ) on 14/7, been listening and voting on everything in the ratings window. I was trying to do so in line with the descriptors in the ratings box, and I left comments wherever I could. The end result was a miniscule drop in average ratings for everyone (I didn't think it was fair if I didn't vote with the same descriptors on everything). The other result was that I ended up having very little time to do much else, including listening and commenting on my "fav's" postsand recording new material. I also ended up getting way too involved in the whole ratings game - and the anxiety it can create.

As from my current song, I've decided to remove myself from the rating system altogether - I won't enable voting on my songs in future and i won't vote. I have even removed the ratings picks window from my bio page. I feel better already.

As people tried to tell me in the forum I started, the rating system is well and truly broken, and there seems no point in staying involved with it. I guess I learnt a lesson :)

Now - back about your business.

Cheers from Oz,
Neil
B)

what he said .. :-)

I give myself 10s on looks alone!

There was - donno how it is now . I given one 10 to Dee - thats all the voting I do ! Agreeing w Jiguma !! as long as there are 1, 2, 3 it's imo no good . I sometimes write in the comments but seldom now - I DO think this song deserves a 10 http://www.macjams.com/song/45892 Disabling it is great kudos Neil 8) (this is NOT AN EIGHT it is a bigeyed smiley !( 8

yup

Mad? Mad?!... Who you calling mad?. :)

And I was scoring based on the 100 scale. I gave you four 10's which comes to 40%! ;)

Let the good times roll...

(as if you didn't know who...)
B)

...

That makes 2 of us!

Music should be played, listened to, and enjoyed. Not rated.

Slashh!

I'm trying real hard to vote honestly and 10s go to spectacular/stunning things only.

Really I am!

The *real* problem is lack of responsible participation. Not enough folks vote. A couple of 3-bombs can bury a good song and a couple of 10-bombs can elevate an amateurish work... ONLY because there are too few votes to represent anything even approaching reality.

The scores mean absolutely nothing, except to offer some level of visibility in the Rating Picks window. I much prefer comments from respected good ears, which can help me tweak and improve my works.

What we have here is a musical laissez-faire vanity site, which accommodates a wide range of musical tastes and talent levels, giving everyone an opportunity to participate and to be heard. Far from perfect and certainly frustrating at times, it still comes down to how the entire membership participates.

here here.... I think if everyone voted (honestly) on everything they listened to, so we could have dozens and dozens(if not hundreds) of votes on a tune giving it a way for honest and scientific average.... not perfect still but not nearly as flawed as it currently is.... all you need now is a handful of 10's on a crap song (yes crap does exist here) to get you in the window.... so I say power to the MJer!!!!
"VOTE OR DIE!" (that quote will only be funny to fellow South Park fans....

I have had many cases of people giving my work 10's and I don't think anything of mine here deserves 10's....it's flattering but undeserved.... my musical heroes deserve 10's..... but not me.... I'm like a good solid 4 .... yeah..... a 4....

peace and future

p.s. I am here and now vowing to honestly vote on every song I listen to here.... I don't think it's a pointless system....we just need everyone to participate for it to work.... WHO'S WITH ME??

I completely agree, Joe. The more people get disillusioned with the system and opt out of it, the more irrelevant it gets.

Which is a shame.

this is starting to take on the trappings of the pro-life/pro-choice debate. won't say what side of that argument i'm on. :)

I voted enough or perhaps too much. I voted high to denote I appreciated the effort or not at all if I didn't care for the piece. I didn't vote for a long time because I didn't understand the musicianship and the technicalities and that still is the case. I did vote as a show of support because of enjoyment but not just because the artist was a friend. I won't vote anymore. If votes are intended as a score for skill, then only skilled musicians should be allow to judge.
Until that limitation is in place the ratings can be looked as how well the piece entertained. That isn't such a bad thing.

I guess voting is no real indicator of a songs worth unlesss there is total honesty. What's stopping someone creating a new login and using their new identity to boost their own scores? Leaving a constructive and honest comment is the best way to leave feedback.

I've weighed in at length on this issue before, and I think the conclusion most people arrived at was that I was a big windbag. That said, here goes:
This site is used for a couple different purposes. There are those that use it as a fun social networking site, and the intent is to make friends and meet new people.
Then there are those that have gotten into home recording and they want to learn how to improve their recordings.
And then there are those that want to get more exposure for their music.

For those that want to make friends, then the ratings are mostly a pat on the back for their friends. For the person that wants to learn how to improve, the ratings are useful since they could point out what areas they need to improve in, though not specifically in a nitpicking way, but more as a gauge. And for those that want to get more exposure, the ratings provide a way to get more listens.

It would seem like the friends network has taken over the ratings system. There's nothing wrong with that, I suppose. It does make it hard for a person that strives to improve their music to get that sort of input, since the ratings system (which would give their music more visibility) seems to be controlled by a clique of friends. Not that there's anything wrong with friends being friends, mind you. It's a lot easier than the troubling work of listening critically and rating a song truthfully to give that gauge that could be helpful for improvement. Encouragement by having ratings of all 10s all the time leaves no room for improvement. I think there is a need for scores lower than an 8; for people that want to improve, having a broader range of scores indicates when you've been successful or not among an objective audience.
But I've accepted the fact that many don't really want to have that sort of helpful gauge. Many people are here just for fun and that's okay. It's fun to show up on the top of the rating picks list, too, so what the heck! I've been there, and it's gratifying. It's somewhat less gratifying to be at that dizzying height and you get only 4 votes. Only 4 people felt strongly enough to commit to clicking on a drop-down box! It's sort of an empty victory when that happens, but still your creation is in that Ratings Picks box and you can strut around, happy as a clam.
How's that for a mixed metaphor?!?!?!

I think your theory neglects the needs of many artists. I for one would really like to know the honest opinion of everyone who listens to a song. If listeners tend to find my songwriting skills below average I'd like to know, so I can invest more effort in that aspect in the future.

To paraphrase Jack Torrance:

All praise and no critical feedback makes Jack a dull boy. All praise and no critical feedback makes Jack a dull boy. All praise and no critical feedback makes Jack a dull boy. All praise and no critical feedback makes Jack a dull boy. All praise and no critical feedback makes Jack a dull boy. All praise and no critical feedback makes Jack a dull boy. All praise and no critical feedback makes Jack a dull boy. All praise and no critical feedback makes Jack a dull boy. All praise and no critical feedback makes Jack a dull boy.

I am guilty of giving and receiving 8s, 9s and 10s. Yes, the system is broken. I am well past being overly concerned, though. I had to deal with that anxiety for three years and realize that you cannot stem the inevitable tide of inflation in voting. It is what it is. I usually leave a comment with my vote.

Here's a solution: no more peer voting. I think Eduard should design a MacJams artificial intelligence voting application which is rigorous, unsympathetic and impartial, a system based on Nashville's formulaic standards of excellence in music.
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